Were James and Thomas Hall related?
This report addresses questions about the origins, and possible relationship, between two couples who were pioneer settlers along Larkins Fork, in northwest Jackson County, Alabama. The two couples were James Hall and his wife, Mary ‘Polly’ Williams, and Thomas Hall and his wife, Sarah ‘Sally’ Mily Williams.
We will start with James Hall, as we know more about him than we do about the other three individuals we will discuss. Federal census records in 1850 and 1860 suggest that James Hall was born in North Carolina about 1786 or 1787. The 1870 Federal census indicates that he was born in Virginia . It appears that the 1870 census was recorded the day after James died, so one could make an argument that the place of birth listed for him in that census record might not be as accurate, as it was probably provided by James’ second wife, or by his daughter who was living with him, or even by a neighbor. After his death in 1870, his widow (his second wife) indicated that he was born somewhere in Tennessee . While he undoubtedly lived in Tennessee in his youth, I am assuming that the 1850 and 1860 census records, which indicate that he was born in North Carolina , are probably our most accurate source.
We can speculate about James Hall's first marriage. James Hall's first bride was apparently Mary 'Polly' Williams. I say apparently because I don’t recall seeing evidence of her name (I may have some in my files). We will assume that James Hall’s first wife was Mary ‘Polly’ Williams, and that Polly was James Hall’s wife until her death some time after 1840 and before 1850. I am not aware of any documents which provide an age, or a place of birth, for Polly. We can estimate Polly’s date of birth, based on the 1820, 1830 and 1840 census records. The 1830 and 1840 census records for the James Hall family in Jackson County suggest that Polly was born between 1790 and 1800. If we also consider an 1820 census record for a James Hall family in Lincoln County , Tennessee , which we believe to be the census of James and Polly Hall’s family, we can narrow Polly’s date of birth down to some time between 1790 and 1794.
We believe that the first child born to James and Polly Hall was born in Tennessee about 1810. Therefore, we would guess that James and Polly were probably married in Tennessee approximately 1808‑1809, when James was about 22 years old. Polly was probably between 14 and 19 years of age when they married. For additional information about James Hall, see Rev. James Hall.
We will now focus our attention on the other couple of interest to us, Thomas Hall and Sarah Mily Williams. Other than census records, I know of no sources for dates of birth or places of birth for either Thomas or Sarah. Fortunately, Sarah lived to an advanced age, providing us with several census records we can use to determine her place of birth and approximate date of birth. Fortunately, the 1850, 1860, 1870 and 1880 census records are consistent in listing her place of birth as Tennessee . That doesn’t mean that she was necessarily born in Tennessee , but provides strong evidence that she thought she was born in Tennessee . Sarah’s age was listed as 60 in 1850, 68 in 1860, 81 in 1870 and 89 in 1880. Taken together, these census records suggest that Sarah was born between 1788 and 1792. For the sake of discussion, we will assume she was born in Tennessee approximately 1790.
Unfortunately, we know nothing about the date of birth, or place of birth, of Sarah’s husband, Thomas Hall. Thomas Hall was absent from Sarah’s household in 1830, leading me to conclude that he probably died prior to 1830 (although we can not completely dismiss the possibilty that he did not die prior to 1830, but deserted his family). Assuming that he died prior to 1830, there are no census records for Thomas Hall which would give us an indication of where he was born. However, two of his daughters were still living in 1880, when the census began listing birthplaces of parents. In 1880, one of Thomas Hall’s daughters did not list any birthplace for her parents, and the other daughter listed Tennessee as the birthplace for both her parents. Since we have some census evidence that Sarah was born in Tennessee , this 1880 census record indicating that both Thomas and Sarah were born in Tennessee could be correct. We will assume, for the moment, that Thomas Hall was born in Tennessee , but recognize that the evidence is very weak. The 1880 census information providing birth places of parents is fraught with errors. Many people in 1880 did not know where their parents were born, and the information recorded by the census enumerator was often provided by someone that had no idea where the parents of their spouse (or parent, or neighbor) were born.
Since we have no records which provide any information about the date that Thomas Hall was born, all we can do is roughly estimate his date of birth. I believe that the first child born to Thomas and Sarah was born in Tennessee in 1809 or 1810. Based solely on that information, I would guess that Thomas and Sarah were married in Tennessee around 1808. And if Sarah was born around 1790, and married around 1808, I would guess Thomas Hall’s date of birth as approximately 1787. But we must remember that this date is very speculative at this point.
So, at this point, we have James Hall, probably born in North Carollina about 1786 or 1787, quite possibly married to Mary ‘Polly’ Williams in Tennessee about 1808-1809. And we are estimating that Polly Williams was born between 1790 and 1794.
We also have Thomas Hall, possibly born in Tennessee (weak evidence) around 1787 (very speculative). We speculate that Thomas and Sarah Mily Williams were married in Tennessee around 1808. And we have reason to believe that Sarah Mily Williams was probably born in Tennessee around 1790.
The similarities between the two couples are certainly interesting. But why are we comparing what we know about the two couples? Could it be that James and Thomas Hall were brothers who married Williams family sisters? We know it was not uncommon in the 18th and 19th century for siblings to marry siblings. Most serious family researchers have run across the marriages of siblings to siblings in their own family history. Family researchers have not been able to trace the origins of either James or Thomas Hall, or of Polly or Sarah Williams. But if James and Thomas Hall, and/or Polly and Sarah Williams, were siblings, and we combine what we know of all four of these individuals, might the combined information provide the clue we need to trace the ancestry of all four individuals?
Besides the similarities already reported, what other reasons do we have to suspect a possible relationship between these two families? Several come to mind.
First, there is an old family legend passed down in the James Hall family. The story relates that “seven Hall brothers left Virginia . One Stopped at Chattanooga , Tennessee , three to Jackson Co, Al. one to Franklin Co., Tn, one to Arkansas and one to Texas . The one in Chattanooga was never heard from. They believed he was killed by Indians.” I So we do have reason to believe that James Hall had a brother, or brothers, in Jackson County . Might James and Thomas Hall have been two of the Hall brothers who settled in Jackson County ?
Second, the James Hall family and the Thomas Hall family were both pioneer settlers on Larkins Fork, in the northwest corner of Jackson County, Alabama. In fact, they were neighbors on Larkins Fork, living only about two miles apart.
Third, both families attended the same early Primitive Baptist Church on Larkins Fork.
Fourth, all of Thomas Hall’s children emigrated from the Larkins Fork area to an area in Ripley County , Missouri , between about 1840 and 1843. One of James Hall’s sons took the same migration path about the same time, and another of James Hall’s sons moved to the same area some years later.
Fifth, in an unfinished two-page Hall family chronicle written many years ago, one of James Hall's great-grandsons indicated that his great-grandfather, James Hall, was "of Irish decent". He also indicated that his great-grandmother, Polly (Williams) Hall, was “Black Dutch”. In a notebook of family information compiled in 1940 by a great-granddaughter of Thomas Hall, his great-granddaughter indicated that her great-grandfather, Thomas Hall, was “full blood Irish”. She also indicated that her great-grandmother, Sarah Mily (Williams) Hall, was “Penn. Dutch”.
Sixth, James and Polly Hall named their eldest son Thomas. While it is still very speculative at this point, there is some evidence that suggests Thomas and Sarah named their second son James.
We will start with James Hall, as we know more about him than we do about the other three individuals we will discuss. Federal census records in 1850 and 1860 suggest that James Hall was born in North Carolina about 1786 or 1787. The 1870 Federal census indicates that he was born in Virginia . It appears that the 1870 census was recorded the day after James died, so one could make an argument that the place of birth listed for him in that census record might not be as accurate, as it was probably provided by James’ second wife, or by his daughter who was living with him, or even by a neighbor. After his death in 1870, his widow (his second wife) indicated that he was born somewhere in Tennessee . While he undoubtedly lived in Tennessee in his youth, I am assuming that the 1850 and 1860 census records, which indicate that he was born in North Carolina , are probably our most accurate source.
We can speculate about James Hall's first marriage. James Hall's first bride was apparently Mary 'Polly' Williams. I say apparently because I don’t recall seeing evidence of her name (I may have some in my files). We will assume that James Hall’s first wife was Mary ‘Polly’ Williams, and that Polly was James Hall’s wife until her death some time after 1840 and before 1850. I am not aware of any documents which provide an age, or a place of birth, for Polly. We can estimate Polly’s date of birth, based on the 1820, 1830 and 1840 census records. The 1830 and 1840 census records for the James Hall family in Jackson County suggest that Polly was born between 1790 and 1800. If we also consider an 1820 census record for a James Hall family in Lincoln County , Tennessee , which we believe to be the census of James and Polly Hall’s family, we can narrow Polly’s date of birth down to some time between 1790 and 1794.
We believe that the first child born to James and Polly Hall was born in Tennessee about 1810. Therefore, we would guess that James and Polly were probably married in Tennessee approximately 1808‑1809, when James was about 22 years old. Polly was probably between 14 and 19 years of age when they married. For additional information about James Hall, see Rev. James Hall.
We will now focus our attention on the other couple of interest to us, Thomas Hall and Sarah Mily Williams. Other than census records, I know of no sources for dates of birth or places of birth for either Thomas or Sarah. Fortunately, Sarah lived to an advanced age, providing us with several census records we can use to determine her place of birth and approximate date of birth. Fortunately, the 1850, 1860, 1870 and 1880 census records are consistent in listing her place of birth as Tennessee . That doesn’t mean that she was necessarily born in Tennessee , but provides strong evidence that she thought she was born in Tennessee . Sarah’s age was listed as 60 in 1850, 68 in 1860, 81 in 1870 and 89 in 1880. Taken together, these census records suggest that Sarah was born between 1788 and 1792. For the sake of discussion, we will assume she was born in Tennessee approximately 1790.
Unfortunately, we know nothing about the date of birth, or place of birth, of Sarah’s husband, Thomas Hall. Thomas Hall was absent from Sarah’s household in 1830, leading me to conclude that he probably died prior to 1830 (although we can not completely dismiss the possibilty that he did not die prior to 1830, but deserted his family). Assuming that he died prior to 1830, there are no census records for Thomas Hall which would give us an indication of where he was born. However, two of his daughters were still living in 1880, when the census began listing birthplaces of parents. In 1880, one of Thomas Hall’s daughters did not list any birthplace for her parents, and the other daughter listed Tennessee as the birthplace for both her parents. Since we have some census evidence that Sarah was born in Tennessee , this 1880 census record indicating that both Thomas and Sarah were born in Tennessee could be correct. We will assume, for the moment, that Thomas Hall was born in Tennessee , but recognize that the evidence is very weak. The 1880 census information providing birth places of parents is fraught with errors. Many people in 1880 did not know where their parents were born, and the information recorded by the census enumerator was often provided by someone that had no idea where the parents of their spouse (or parent, or neighbor) were born.
Since we have no records which provide any information about the date that Thomas Hall was born, all we can do is roughly estimate his date of birth. I believe that the first child born to Thomas and Sarah was born in Tennessee in 1809 or 1810. Based solely on that information, I would guess that Thomas and Sarah were married in Tennessee around 1808. And if Sarah was born around 1790, and married around 1808, I would guess Thomas Hall’s date of birth as approximately 1787. But we must remember that this date is very speculative at this point.
So, at this point, we have James Hall, probably born in North Carollina about 1786 or 1787, quite possibly married to Mary ‘Polly’ Williams in Tennessee about 1808-1809. And we are estimating that Polly Williams was born between 1790 and 1794.
We also have Thomas Hall, possibly born in Tennessee (weak evidence) around 1787 (very speculative). We speculate that Thomas and Sarah Mily Williams were married in Tennessee around 1808. And we have reason to believe that Sarah Mily Williams was probably born in Tennessee around 1790.
The similarities between the two couples are certainly interesting. But why are we comparing what we know about the two couples? Could it be that James and Thomas Hall were brothers who married Williams family sisters? We know it was not uncommon in the 18th and 19th century for siblings to marry siblings. Most serious family researchers have run across the marriages of siblings to siblings in their own family history. Family researchers have not been able to trace the origins of either James or Thomas Hall, or of Polly or Sarah Williams. But if James and Thomas Hall, and/or Polly and Sarah Williams, were siblings, and we combine what we know of all four of these individuals, might the combined information provide the clue we need to trace the ancestry of all four individuals?
Besides the similarities already reported, what other reasons do we have to suspect a possible relationship between these two families? Several come to mind.
First, there is an old family legend passed down in the James Hall family. The story relates that “seven Hall brothers left Virginia . One Stopped at Chattanooga , Tennessee , three to Jackson Co, Al. one to Franklin Co., Tn, one to Arkansas and one to Texas . The one in Chattanooga was never heard from. They believed he was killed by Indians.” I So we do have reason to believe that James Hall had a brother, or brothers, in Jackson County . Might James and Thomas Hall have been two of the Hall brothers who settled in Jackson County ?
Second, the James Hall family and the Thomas Hall family were both pioneer settlers on Larkins Fork, in the northwest corner of Jackson County, Alabama. In fact, they were neighbors on Larkins Fork, living only about two miles apart.
Third, both families attended the same early Primitive Baptist Church on Larkins Fork.
Fourth, all of Thomas Hall’s children emigrated from the Larkins Fork area to an area in Ripley County , Missouri , between about 1840 and 1843. One of James Hall’s sons took the same migration path about the same time, and another of James Hall’s sons moved to the same area some years later.
Fifth, in an unfinished two-page Hall family chronicle written many years ago, one of James Hall's great-grandsons indicated that his great-grandfather, James Hall, was "of Irish decent". He also indicated that his great-grandmother, Polly (Williams) Hall, was “Black Dutch”. In a notebook of family information compiled in 1940 by a great-granddaughter of Thomas Hall, his great-granddaughter indicated that her great-grandfather, Thomas Hall, was “full blood Irish”. She also indicated that her great-grandmother, Sarah Mily (Williams) Hall, was “Penn. Dutch”.
Sixth, James and Polly Hall named their eldest son Thomas. While it is still very speculative at this point, there is some evidence that suggests Thomas and Sarah named their second son James.